Curse

Ensign · Jul 15, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

I'm having a little trouble wrapping my brain around what you're saying here, can you make an example of such a situation?

Yeah, it's a pretty niche situation.

Let's say you were, for whatever reason, playing the following Mesmer/Monk build:

Arcane Echo
Blackout
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Remove Hex
Resurrect

(don't ask me why you'd run that build).

Because of how these skills are linked, you want exactly two attributes: Fast Casting and Domination. Assume for the moment that you're absolutely addicted to Fast Casting and have decided to completely max that attribute, demanding both your hat and the superior rune to get to 16.

So what do you want to do with Domination? Well your ideal level is 14. All of your Domination skills have a breakpoint there (hence this entirely contrived example), making a 14 in Domination identical to a 15 in Domination. With your 12 base, a major rune and a superior rune will have the exact same effect on your skills, except that a superior rune simply costs you 25 more health.

Thus, you'd use a major over the superior in this example.

Now are there any practical builds that have this same constraint? None that I've seen. But, at least in theory, there are builds out there that really want to milk breakpoints, and because of that majors might end up being more useful.

Personally, the only reason I care about majors at all is that you need to have the already unlocked before you can spend your faction on a superior.

Peace,
-CxE

MuKen · Jul 15, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Ah, I get it now.

Anywho, I think essentially to balance major runes with supes, the HP hit of using two majors has to be <= the HP hit of one superior. That would make it so in all of these +3/+1 vs +2/+2 dealies, the major runes would be the cheaper deal HP-wise, whereas the +3/+1 would occasionally be cheaper attribute wise. In fact, even if you made majors more attractive than that, it would be fine, since people would still use supes for the purpose of maximizing stats.

EndersNight · Jul 15, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Hmm.

Perhaps there could be a NEW version of runes that takes away STAT points rather then HP? I'm talking like a TON of stats points - for example 8,15,40.

This may sound silly - because it is the direct opposite of what the runes give - but it would greatly reward the TOP 10% of players that have 1 million+ exp as they would VERY gradually get sigificantly stronger.

Celes Tial · Jul 15, 2005, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

If I want a challenge, I take part in a competition or a tournament! But in a game I only seek fun!

This game is about competition and tournaments.

You dont need runes for doing the quests and missions.

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 10:21 AM // 10:21

They are fine as it is..

I have two superior runes on my monk, great healing.. and protection from him too

FluidFox · Jul 15, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

I just wish they hadn't nerfed superior vigor down to 50 rather than 75.

I think A superior vigor should be able to offset the health loss of a regular superor rune. That's the way it used to be and the way it still should be in my opinion.

As it stands, a superior vigor isn't worth much more than a major when you come down to it. It only gives 9 more health. I really didn't approve of that change.

Creamy Jade · Jul 15, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

If you were willing to spend the 100 for +2/+2, you can get 25 more health by using the +3/+1 instead and swapping your natural point allocations. Furthermore, if the two stats you are bumping are to different totals, then you lose no attribute points, or might even gain attribute points for doing this. For example, instead of having 11+2/10+2, using 10+3/11+1 results in the same stats for the same cost but more hp. Or instead of having 12+2/10+2 using 11+3/11+1 results in having the same stats for less cost and more hp.

Ah. I see now what went wrong in my reasoning. Thank you for pointing that out in a patient and clear way. A pity though, one would indeed almost think that the only use major runes have is when you want to spread out your maximums over 2 atributes rather than using a superior rune for focus on a single attribute. Really too bad that that isn't the case at all.

Note to self: Do try to stop letting wishfull thinking interfer with reasoning

GranDeWun · Jul 15, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32

For most of us, the ungodly cost of the superiors makes this discussion largely moot...

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Actually it is only warriors, most sup runes are pretty cheap (in gold sense)

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 16, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02

ya they dont cost too much (well i only go for minors) but i hate how they only give you 25 gold back for even a sup, which makes them completely pointless to me

Sagius Truthbarron · Jul 16, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

The reason (In my expirience) why there is such a large penalty on runes is so that someone with a Major Hammer/Prot/Whatever run can be just as good as a person with a Superior one; the person with the Major rune having more health.

But on this basis, I think health runes should have a penalty aswell. Perhaps in armor. Really, it's only fair.

I just unlocked my superior health rune through PvP. Who - besides rich PvE'ers - need a +9 health over a major rune?

Kashrlyyk · Jul 16, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celes Tial

This game is about competition and tournaments.

You dont need runes for doing the quests and missions.

Where on the CE box does it say that?

I merely answered to IndiCC, who said, he doesn´t understand why people want to make GW easier!

FFF_WarRaven · Jul 16, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyCC

I will never understand why everyone wants to make this game even easier. Do people nowadays not enjoy the thrill of *gasp* a challenge.

Challenge!!!

Oh My God NOOOOOOOOOOOO!...

*Faints dead away*

lol, acctually the penalties arn't really all that bad, you just need to weightout your needs and wants, and adding a super vigor will help with at least 1 other maj or super, adding a sup strength or other master might just be worth that -hp if it gets the job done better, faster etc.

anyone else read that thread on the solo mo/war...he's got a super on every peice of armor..tho im sure he carries a whole extra set that doesn't lower his hp to 105

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